Sunday Session 3rd January @ Red Deer

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Sunday Session 3rd January @ Red Deer

Post  DaveB on Tue 05 Jan 2016, 11:34

PaulC wrote:

That's by and large what I said when I played it 18(ish) months ago. Glad to hear my opinion was in line with yours. Smile

Yep same here pretty much. Still have exactly no interest in going back and giving it a second go Smile

DaveB
Count of Carcassonne

Posts : 1414
Join date : 2013-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Sunday Session 3rd January @ Red Deer

Post  paulyg on Tue 05 Jan 2016, 11:39

Jamie wrote:On the video I saw, I think they mentioned using a notepad to record ship movement orders. Anyhow, sorry I missed the game too; wouldn't mind giving it a whirl some other time.

PaulG wrote:It took us about 4.5 hours for a 4-player game (admittedly all new to it, so perhaps you could shave an hour off that) so roughly in the ballpark of Eclipse. From what I've seen, Eclipse is way more polished.

Have you still not played Eclipse yet Paul? We definitely need to remedy that! Smile
Yep, definitely want to (and I did play the iPad version ages ago against the AI a couple of times). Just finding some time!
avatar
paulyg
Starting player token

Posts : 1797
Join date : 2014-03-09
Age : 38
Location : Greenhill

View user profile http://www.antigeek.net

Back to top Go down

Re: Sunday Session 3rd January @ Red Deer

Post  psychomansam on Tue 05 Jan 2016, 12:59

PaulC wrote:
PaulG wrote:
Sam wrote:Whoops, didn't even see this thread (that's not like me) — sorry I didn't make it on Sunday. Thoughts on the game?
I'd say it was good in parts.

The good:
- Interesting voting / chancellor / turn order mechanics
- Open tech buying (no 'tree' as such) allows players to develop in different ways
- Inter-system missiles to destroy population / resources is an interesting idea and something I'd not seen elsewhere
- Resource systems were good - particularly ability to share planets (turn order then becomes important as to who grabs the resources first) and depletion of resources

The bad:
- Component quality, rulebook, general layout & thoughtfulness of design (e.g. you can have two of each ship type, but there's no particular way to note which of the two ships has been damaged or is carrying population)
- Everything feels really fiddly, from tiny resource cylinders (which Sam sensibly replaced with something less insane) to having half victory points
- Token-based hidden movement so fiddly that we immediately abandoned it - reverse turn order movement was an ok replacement but probably over-emphasised turn order importance towards the end
- Victory points incentivised boring behaviour rather than exciting space combat (e.g. you get victory points for each hex occupied by your ships at the end leading everyone to scatter their ships rather than fighting battles for control of the centre)

I think the 2nd edition fixes some of the bad points, and you can certainly adapt the rules to improve the game (e.g. we decided to start the hexes face-down so that there was an exploration element, which is not in the rules). There's a decent game in there somewhere but it feels like it got released whilst still half-baked.

It took us about 4.5 hours for a 4-player game (admittedly all new to it, so perhaps you could shave an hour off that) so roughly in the ballpark of Eclipse. From what I've seen, Eclipse is way more polished.

About 90% of the ideas in the game are in Eclipse, Twilight Imperium or whatever other 4X games. The other 10% is really interesting, but not enough to make me want to play this more than TI3.

That's by and large what I said when I played it 18(ish) months ago. Glad to hear my opinion was in line with yours. Smile

Thanks for this Paul.

Tom and I are considering getting the second edition. This basically fixes components, the two-ship tracking issue, resource tracking, rule-book issues, and silly victory point divisions. I think we suggested a good fix for end-scoring (I know changes were made in 2nd edition, so may find this is in already). The remaining issue is ship movement. They do suggest the variant we went for. I wonder if it would be worth doing reverse order except for the final round where hidden movement could come into play? Also, cloaking can allow you to move last regardless of your place in the turn order, something we didn't do but I suspect would be very worthwhile as it also allows you to drop population anywhere.

What do you think - worth the upgrade?
avatar
psychomansam
Dominant Species
Dominant Species

Posts : 526
Join date : 2015-05-16

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Sunday Session 3rd January @ Red Deer

Post  Jamie on Tue 05 Jan 2016, 13:33

psychomansam wrote:What do you think - worth the upgrade?

Upgrade to Eclipse? Wink
avatar
Jamie
Count of Carcassonne

Posts : 1199
Join date : 2014-08-03
Location : Camelot (nr Intake)

View user profile http://www.mrqwak.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Sunday Session 3rd January @ Red Deer

Post  paulyg on Tue 05 Jan 2016, 14:19

psychomansam wrote:Thanks for this Paul.

Tom and I are considering getting the second edition. This basically fixes components, the two-ship tracking issue, resource tracking, rule-book issues, and silly victory point divisions. I think we suggested a good fix for end-scoring (I know changes were made in 2nd edition, so may find this is in already). The remaining issue is ship movement. They do suggest the variant we went for. I wonder if it would be worth doing reverse order except for the final round where hidden movement could come into play? Also, cloaking can allow you to move last regardless of your place in the turn order, something we didn't do but I suspect would be very worthwhile as it also allows you to drop population anywhere.

What do you think - worth the upgrade?
I do think the 2nd edition would make it a better game, but for me I don't think it's unique enough that I'd be excited to play it more than the other 4X games that are out there.
avatar
paulyg
Starting player token

Posts : 1797
Join date : 2014-03-09
Age : 38
Location : Greenhill

View user profile http://www.antigeek.net

Back to top Go down

Re: Sunday Session 3rd January @ Red Deer

Post  Aneurin on Tue 05 Jan 2016, 16:39

Be interesting to see your take on Eclipse after being exposed to TI3 first. To me the latter is the definitive 4X space game... and eclipse just doesn't do it for me... don't get me wrong - I love the economy mechanic in eclipse but it just lacks the Opera that TI3 produces everytime...
avatar
Aneurin
Starting player token

Posts : 2714
Join date : 2011-07-20
Age : 37
Location : Deepcar

View user profile http://www.sheffieldboardgamers.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Sunday Session 3rd January @ Red Deer

Post  Jamie on Tue 05 Jan 2016, 17:10

Aneurin wrote:Be interesting to see your take on Eclipse after being exposed to TI3 first. To me the latter is the definitive 4X space game... and eclipse just doesn't do it for me... don't get me wrong - I love the economy mechanic in eclipse but it just lacks the Opera that TI3 produces everytime...

I'd love to get you to give Eclipse another whirl sometime Aneurin; it's a *far* better game when you add in the expansion ... which does an awesome job at addressing the OP Plasma Missile issue ... much to my chagrin, just ask Sam! Shocked Sad
avatar
Jamie
Count of Carcassonne

Posts : 1199
Join date : 2014-08-03
Location : Camelot (nr Intake)

View user profile http://www.mrqwak.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Sunday Session 3rd January @ Red Deer

Post  Aneurin on Tue 05 Jan 2016, 17:18

I've played eclipse a few times now... It just misses the diplomacy and politics for me...
avatar
Aneurin
Starting player token

Posts : 2714
Join date : 2011-07-20
Age : 37
Location : Deepcar

View user profile http://www.sheffieldboardgamers.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Sunday Session 3rd January @ Red Deer

Post  psychomansam on Tue 05 Jan 2016, 23:33

Aneurin wrote:I've played eclipse a few times now... It just misses the diplomacy and politics for me...

Perhaps you need to play Exodus, once we've got it streamlined and more playable. It has some voting and politics, so a bit more like mini TI3 in that respect.
TI3 has one very obvious downfall - time! Exodus even has shorter variants. You might not get the full opera, but you can be done in 3 hours...
avatar
psychomansam
Dominant Species
Dominant Species

Posts : 526
Join date : 2015-05-16

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Sunday Session 3rd January @ Red Deer

Post  Aneurin on Wed 06 Jan 2016, 10:03

The time issue for TI3 has never bothered me - perhaps because when I play I know it will be an all day game. I don't think I have ever been bored playing it... and the 8 hours or so seem to pass quick quickly...

avatar
Aneurin
Starting player token

Posts : 2714
Join date : 2011-07-20
Age : 37
Location : Deepcar

View user profile http://www.sheffieldboardgamers.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Sunday Session 3rd January @ Red Deer

Post  paulyg on Wed 06 Jan 2016, 10:06

I also think it's partly a factor of player count isn't it? I'd think you could probably get a 4-player game of TI3 done in 4 hours (never played it with 4, mind). I've got to say that I love our monster 8-player games though.

Aneurin - I think you'd like the voting & resource mechanics of Exodus.
avatar
paulyg
Starting player token

Posts : 1797
Join date : 2014-03-09
Age : 38
Location : Greenhill

View user profile http://www.antigeek.net

Back to top Go down

Re: Sunday Session 3rd January @ Red Deer

Post  Aneurin on Wed 06 Jan 2016, 10:15

Yeah if everyone knew what they were doing. Easily. Its also a smaller galaxy - only 3 rings... and also you get 2 strategy cards so it becomes much easier to move in on the objective cards to reach 10VP.

However, most of the 4 player games I used to play when I was a student - we liked to extend it by playing the long war (first to 15 points) probably took it back to 6-8 hours anyway Wink

If you are investing - it might as well be a big investment.
avatar
Aneurin
Starting player token

Posts : 2714
Join date : 2011-07-20
Age : 37
Location : Deepcar

View user profile http://www.sheffieldboardgamers.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Sunday Session 3rd January @ Red Deer

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum