Harassment within gaming

I've mentioned this before and there was some talk of doing it. I think if we removed a lot if the useless headings from the site and added a simple info page to explain who we are and what we're about it would cover a lot of the points mentioned here. Pictures included of course.

We definitely need to do that. The website hardly says anything about the club at all. Pictures would also help to put a face on the club and so newcomers know who they can approach about different things.

Kes wrote:I've mentioned this before and there was some talk of doing it. I think if we removed a lot if the useless headings from the site and added a simple info page to explain who we are and what we're about it would cover a lot of the points mentioned here. Pictures included of course.

Yes... Anyone want to work on an FAQ? Or About us document that relates to the club? I can change the buttons...

We want - Home, About Us, Members, PM, Search, Logout right?

Aneurin wrote:

Kes wrote:I've mentioned this before and there was some talk of doing it. I think if we removed a lot if the useless headings from the site and added a simple info page to explain who we are and what we're about it would cover a lot of the points mentioned here. Pictures included of course.

Yes... Anyone want to work on an FAQ? Or About us document that relates to the club? I can change the buttons...

How's this:

The Sheffield Board Games club meets every Tuesday evening 7pm-late in the room upstairs at The University Arms, 197 Brook Hill, Sheffield S3 7HG

As well as this forum we have Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/sheffieldboardgamers/) and Twitter pages (https://twitter.com/shefboardgamers) where you can follow what we're up to.

Everyone is very welcome to come and join us. You don’t need to tell us you’re coming, just turn up and make yourself known and we’ll fit you in to a game. It doesn’t matter if you haven’t played any games before, everyone is always happy to teach a game before starting to play and it’s common for games to be new to everyone playing.  

You can bring along your own games if you wish, but there will be plenty available to join in with on the night. Some of the group use this forum to pre-arrange games to play that week and anyone is welcome to sign up to games or request something. Many of our members have extensive collections and will be only too happy to accommodate you if there’s something in particular you want to try out - just ask!

There is a £2 annual fee for members to support the forum, pay for boards and to go towards prizes at our Christmas party. Your first visit to the club is free and your payment will last till the end of December that year.

The University Arms allows us to use the room for free and we do ask that everyone at the club does what they can to support the venue. People often meet from 6pm to have some food before the official start time and anyone is welcome to join in. That said, drinks on tables when playing games is thoroughly frowned upon, if you damage someone else’s game please be prepared to replace it!

The only other thing that we ask is that everyone treats each other with respect and tolerance. Any form of harassment or discrimination is unacceptable; we want the club to be a fun and friendly environment for everyone to enjoy. If you ever need to approach somebody please speak to Liz Martin at a club session or contact us through our Facebook/Twitter accounts and we will do what we can to address the situation.

Above all enjoy playing games and we look forward to seeing you soon!

Aneurin wrote: I can change the buttons... We want - Home, About Us, Members, PM, Search, Logout right?

Sounds about right.

There are plenty of other things we could add. A history of the club maybe, or a list of games that we play so people get an impression of what we do? I think Kes' idea is to have a page introducing some of the people in the club that people might want to specifically speak to. i.e. Aneurin (forum/venue), Karl (subs), Liz (PR), Kes (clothing). Anyone else?

I don't know how easy it is to get some photos on the site. A general shot of everyone might be nice. I've been wondering about changing the Facebook banner to one of our group photos, what do people think?

...When chatting to some new folks last week, they said that they found us through Facebook, and they were not aware of this forum - So maybe something more obvious on the Facebook page that directs folks over here might be good??

Lizzy - I think that looks great.

Other 'roles' that I can think of would maybe be:
- You for Sunday sessions
- Jamie/Dave for hidden role Thursdays
- Tom C for playtest sessions

But don't know if that's too much / too niche!

Would additionally be great to have some photos of anyone who is comfortable putting their mug up there with name and forum name. We already partially have this via the avatars and real names on the forum but might be good to have all in one place. Then it's easier for newer members to work out who they've agreed to play a game with :-)

I'm liking your blurb Lizzy!

One consideration re: putting photos online, including a group photo; is that some people may not be entirely comfortable with having photos of themselves posted online. I'm slightly uncomfortable with it, I don't mind so much if I get snapped playing a game, but I'm not overly keen on the banner idea.

No idea why I feel like that; totally irrational I know, but perhaps it's an issue for other people too? ... who may not speak up and be seen to be an oddball like me!

Just incase other people may feel uncomfortable it, maybe tread carefully with anything that result in people's mugs appearing online? Snaps of games that the official club photographer takes every week seem okay though.

Evan: Thanks for that. Info is quite hard to find on the Facebook page so I've pinned a description to the top.

Paulyg: Good point, if those people are happy to be responsible for those events it'd be good to have a list somewhere. I'm not sure we need a list of everyone else, if you're talking to someone in a thread they'll see your avatar there. Definitely helps for people to do that when they're comfortable to.

I'm never sure how much to advertise those sessions, it gets blured into extra-curriclar gaming. I should probably make more of an effort to mention them on Facebook/Twitter.

Jamie: Thanks. That's precisely why I've not used one of those photos as a banner before, I can't check if everyone's ok with it. I'll leave it as is. Shame though as it does look better and gives an impression of the club as a whole. I was thinking this one:

https://www.facebook.com/sheffieldboardgamers/photos/pb.774469649238802.-2207520000.1460463430./1164889213530175/?type=3&theater

It's difficult to know how much people are ok with me taking photos of them at sessions so I don't tend to take many, just focus on the games. I never tag anyone for the same reason.

Lizzy wrote:
Jamie: Thanks. That's precisely why I've not used one of those photos as a banner before, I can't check if everyone's ok with it. I'll leave it as is. Shame though as it does look better and gives an impression of the club as a whole. I was thinking this one:

https://www.facebook.com/sheffieldboardgamers/photos/pb.774469649238802.-2207520000.1460463430./1164889213530175/?type=3&theater

It's difficult to know how much people are ok with me taking photos of them at sessions so I don't tend to take many, just focus on the games. I never tag anyone for the same reason.

So, stage one! You only need to find half a dozen people happy to have their photo taken, get them playing a game and snap a shot.

I don't mind my photo being used, though I fully accept that it is more likely to put people off attending.

PaulC wrote:So, stage one! You only need to find half a dozen people happy to have their photo taken, get them playing a game and snap a shot.

I don't mind my photo being used, though I fully accept that it is more likely to put people off attending.

True, it'd be good to use a better camera too, mine's still a bit blurry in the dark. Kes has a decent camera maybe he can sort us one?

Lizzy wrote:It's difficult to know how much people are ok with me taking photos of them at sessions so I don't tend to take many, just focus on the games. I never tag anyone for the same reason.

Yeah, not tagging people sounds like a good idea. It's probably just me that's the odd ball though, and I imagine most people aren't as sensitive about this as I am (that said, I know at least one other person, who doesn't come all that often, is too).

I guess when taking photos you get a feel for how people feel about it, and frame shots accordingly.

It was much worse in Salsa, you often get some official photos dude sticking a camera in your face, and it's just assumed you're okay with your image appearing online. It just felt a bit too intrusive to me.

Hope I don't sound like an ungrateful sour-puss! You do a fine job, you get my nomination for official club photographer.

Jamie - I know lots of people (outside of the club) who feel exactly the same way about photos, so I don't think you're odd (at least not for that reason ).

Lizzy - I think the current way you do it treads the line just right. The focus is always on the game, and I'm sure you'd happily not post a photo if someone was concerned about being in it. I really like that you take the photos each week - gives a nice feel for what was going on (particularly when I'm not there, but even when I am and haven't seen what everyone else has been playing!).

Jamie wrote:It's probably just me that's the odd ball though, and I imagine most people aren't as sensitive about this as I am (that said, I know at least one other person, who doesn't come all that often, is too).

Much as I hate to agree with you Jamie, I'm not a big fan of having my picture taken either (although the club "action" shots like the one Lizzy had put forward wouldn't have have bothered me if I was in it).

As for the other stuff - the spiel is, I think, very good and well worth using.

It's tricky. I don't like having my photo taken either and I don't know how I'd feel with someone else taking photos every week!

Other people encourage me to take more photos with people in, though. So you can't please everyone. I sort of see it as a necessary evil as it'd make the club look very dry if I just took straight photos of games every week. It's nice to get an overview of the club and what the atmosphere is like.

I'll try and keep it to a minimum though and, certainly, if anyone doesn't want to be in a photo just say so. Some games (Avalon in particular) are just impossible to do any other way.

Lizzy wrote:It's tricky. I don't like having my photo taken either and I don't know how I'd feel with someone else taking photos every week!

Other people encourage me to take more photos with people in, though. So you can't please everyone. I sort of see it as a necessary evil as it'd make the club look very dry if I just took straight photos of games every week. It's nice to get an overview of the club and what the atmosphere is like.

I'll try and keep it to a minimum though and, certainly, if anyone doesn't want to be in a photo just say so. Some games (Avalon in particular) are just impossible to do any other way.

I've got no problem with how things are done now - I think you have the balance pretty good between group and game shots and not tagging people when you post them.

DaveB wrote:I've got no problem with how things are done now - I think you have the balance pretty good between group and game shots and not tagging people when you post them.

Ditto this. You're doing a fine job Lizzy, don't need to change a thing!

Well done Lizzy, that pretty much says everything. I don't mind having my photo taken, and/or displayed anywhere so snap away.

Great work Liz. I'm not at the club tonight and may have a spare hour to tinker with the forum so I'll try and find a good, obvious place for it. It'll be a first stab and then I'll see what y'all think.

So I've had a first go at removing the menus across the top and added Liz's description to the homepage. Any thoughts?

So PaulG showed me this thread as I don't really come on the forum much - as he was interested in my perspective.
Sorry for the delay in replying. I always seem to join these things after the entire discussions been had 'cos work/sleepy. But anyway:

Mainly I think it's good that everyone feels the club should be a friendly welcoming place, have had considered debate on the best way to encourage this and identify ways the club could be more welcoming.

I thought it was kinda sad though that Lizzy was really brave and shared her experiences and didn't really get much positive feedback from that, just criticised for her interpretation of the drink situation. I think this is a pretty common response from nice guys - either trying to make light of an experience or ignore it or say that kind of behaviour is everywhere and there's nothing anyone can do. I think a response like "I'm sorry that happened" or "It sucks that you (were made to) feel like that" may make someone feel listened to, and more likely to speak out again in the event of future harassment or debate. And maybe an internal reflection on whether one sometimes inadvertently crosses the line between banter and being inappropriate - as has been said, it's not always easy for the recipient to point out. I've never been harassed whilst gaming, but I always have my bodyguard with me. I think sometimes I get away with being targeted less within games or given more leniency. Don't feel you have to been supermean to me next game to compensate, but it's not necessary. I try to not be mean back, just like I try and hold doors open for people sometimes too, but it's hard to always remember.

I've never been on an unfriendly gaming site, but i have seen a lot of similar ganging up on bunny sites between rescues and breeders. It sucks. We're all human, all imperfect, and I hate both sides for leaping in and making something a 'thing' when it might have been far more effective for a few people to have a proper discussion without people getting all emotive and polarised with personal attacks that are nothing to do with the issue. So Lizzy - I'm sorry the netrunner and xwing sites get like that sometimes too and hope they evolve into more friendly inclusive places where you feel happy to post more at some point. I guess it could be improved by an admin who will lock the thread or delete inappropriate posts or language or users - but then I guess it won't evolve their behaviours as they'll just scurry off to another forum.

In terms of my newbie experience - I joined this site in Oct 2011, but it wasn't till March 2014 that I attended a session. I was PaulG's provider of moral support. He and I were very quickly enlisted into a game of Sewer Pirats by Evan who was very welcoming and awesome. PaulG is now happy to toddle off to the Caribbean on his own, so you have all done wonders for his confidence in meeting new people. And we have both made some good friends at the club (PaulG more than me 'cos he plays more games.)

I try and always ask the names of who I'm playing with - but then either forget to introduce myself or forget the name straight away.

karl_b wrote:So I've had a first go at removing the menus across the top and added Liz's description to the homepage. Any thoughts?

Like it! Like the lack of the calendar
Weirdly it's obvious on Safari and Firefox that the Facebook and Twitter are links but not so much on Chrome

I think the new front page intro to the club is excellent. Thanks to Lizzy for composing it and to others for refinement and implementation. I don't mean to sound patronizing by the way, that "thank you" is sincere; I may not have the level of history or involvement with the club that some people do, but I certainly think of myself as a member, I am proud to associate myself with it, and I genuinely appreciate everything people do to make it better - which I think that introductory text definitely does.

I'd just like to echo the positive comments others have made about the club. Like many others, apparently, I am not by any stretch a social butterfly. I consider myself an introvert and for various reasons it is difficult for me to meet and socialize with new people. Sometimes it still is a challenge for me to go out and attend SBGC. But this is not the fault of the club, but my own insecurities and mental health issues.

From the very first time I attended SBGC last spring, with an early version of The Path to Panic in hand, I have always felt welcome. In fact, that version of the game was mediocre at best (a roll and move game with minimal character differentiation and bland mechanics). It says a great deal about those first testers (and the atmosphere of the club in general) that they were encouraging and positive in spite of its numerous flaws.

Even when I haven't been playtesting, but simply playing games, I have always felt accepted at the club. I am still relatively new to the hobby and I often have questions during games, or I make mistakes, or just don't immediately grasp concepts, but people are helpful and willing to explain.

I am under no illusion that everyone who comes to SBGC has a lovely time, every time, without distress or reason to take offense, and I'm sure I am guilty of causing it myself at times (sorry for my comment about baps last night for instance), but it seems to me that for the most part, SBGC is welcoming, friendly, kind, and inclusive.

It is great that this thread has engendered worthwhile, intelligent, and considered discussion about an important topic, and that positive changes are consequently being implemented. But at the same time, I hope that those people here on the forums and in attendance at SBGC gatherings recognize in themselves and each other the good that they do and have done, for the hobby and for socialization in Sheffield in general.

karl_b wrote:So I've had a first go at removing the menus across the top and added Liz's description to the homepage. Any thoughts?

My only criticism is that it's very wordy... On the forum. It shoves the content to the bottom of my page. Anyone using large text or small windows will have to scroll down to the content. Could be annoying. Can we put this info in an 'about us' button. And then a single - to find out more about this club - click here.

Also - Sam made a point earlier about using positive words - can we flip the harassment section around... We are a fun friendly group... Blah blah blah... Any harassment will not be tolerated... Etc etc etc... Contact Liz (username)...

Aneurin wrote:

karl_b wrote:So I've had a first go at removing the menus across the top and added Liz's description to the homepage. Any thoughts?

My only criticism is that it's very wordy... On the forum. It shoves the content to the bottom of my page. Anyone using large text or small windows will have to scroll down to the content. Could be annoying. Can we put this info in an 'about us' button. And then a single - to find out more about this club - click here.

Another option could be a 'more...' link after the first couple of paragraphs which reveals the rest of the text (without having to go to a separate page). That way, once someone has read it once, it doesn't displace the forum content down the screen on subsequent visits? (NB I don't know if that is possible within the confines of the forum software?)

Agree. It does take up quite a bit of space.